Deidre Woollard: [MUSIC] Hello Fools and welcome to The Millionacres Hour. It is two o'clock Eastern Time. I'm Deidre Woollard. I'm here with Kevin Vandenboss, who is a contributor over at Millionacres. As I mentioned today, our interview is with Ed Pitoniac, who is VICIs Chief Executive Officer. We'll get him live in just a second. He previously served as Vice Chairman of Realterm, which is a private equity manager. Just a little bit about VICI properties. They have 28 gaming facilities, that includes 47 million square feet. So hotels, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, all of that sportsbook, all that Vegas stuff you think about, Vegas and elsewhere. The properties VICI has the [inaudible 00:00:47] and the properties released to industry-leading gaming and hospitality operators. Biggies like Caesars Entertainment, Century Casinos, Hard Rock International, JACK Entertainment, and Penn National Gaming. Welcome.
Ed Pitoniak: Thank you Deidre. Good to see you and good to see Kevin.
Kevin Vandenboss: Thank you.
Deidre Woollard: Let's get right into it. What is happening in Las Vegas right now, and what are you seeing in terms of reopening?
Ed Pitoniak: It's been a really interesting 14 months. [laughs] A year ago this time, obviously, the assets were closed. In fact, I think at this point in early May, it wasn't even clear when the Las Vegas assets were going to reopen, and they didn't really start to get reopened until I think it was later June. Obviously, you have to operate under quite severe capacity or restrictions, for much of the rest of 2020, and even into early 2021. What has been so gratifying to see for our operators who have been working so hard and working very hard all this time to operate safely, is that business really started coming back in March. That was obviously a function of a few things. Obviously vaccination, it started to achieve critical mass here in the US. I also think, frankly, by then Deidre, [laughs] the US consumer was ready to get the hell out of that house. That trend has continued into April. I just happened to have CNBC on in the background. They did refer to a number of operators saying that April is the best month they've had since 2013 in Las Vegas. Which is really remarkable because so far, of course, Vegas is really relying principally, if not almost exclusively, on the leisure traveler. The convention and trade-show business hasn't quite fired back up yet, it's going to very soon, starting in June. But clearly here in the US, we've got a lot of people who feel rightly so, "I've been locked up for a long time, it's time to bust out." Vegas is probably, I'm speculating here Deidre, but I'm guessing Vegas is probably the hottest tourist destination in the US right now. Because the great tourism cities like New York and San Francisco really aren't still seeing tourists. Orlando's obviously seeing tourists as Disney World begins to reopen. But that's a family-based tourism experience. I think Vegas right now is leading the way in terms of the leisure recovery in the US.
Deidre Woollard: Makes sense. Good point about conventions too, that they're coming back slowly starting the next couple of months. What about international travel? Obviously, in the US, we're not traveling internationally, which is probably good news for Las Vegas. But are you seeing any international travel come to Vegas or not quite yet?
Ed Pitoniak: We're not hearing about a lot of it and for exactly the reasons you cite. I mean, the truth is most of the countries around us are still struggling. I mean Canada as an example, where I lived for many years, is really having a tough time. European inbound travel was obviously not robust yet by any means, so I do think it's going to be a while, maybe it's in 2022, that Vegas start seeing meaningful recovery of international travel. But I don't think Vegas is going to pay a price for that through the rest of 2021 and even it's 2022, because Americans are going to be going nuts.
Kevin Vandenboss: Hi Ed. You guys have a fair amount of land along the strip there in Vegas, I'm curious, what development opportunities are you guys exploring in there right now?
Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. Kevin, we own 27 acres that we call, strip adjacent. It's acreage that exists right in back of assets like Harrah's Las Vegas, Flamingo, LINQ, Cromwell, Bally's, Paris Planet Hollywood, right along the back edge of all those buildings on the east side of the Strip. We own 27 acres. Caesars has another 23 that are largely undeveloped. We actually had an agreement a year-ago that we would buy that 23 acres, but we had to table that for a few reasons, COVID being one of them. But secondly, because there are some entitlement and encumbrance issues around that. But eventually that does represent developable land. Probably the most compelling land that we VICI own in Las Vegas, is a seven acre parcel, actually within the 82 acres of Caesars Palace Las Vegas, this is seven acres that sits at the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard, otherwise known as the Strip and Flamingo. Right now, it's perhaps the most underutilized seven acres in American commercial real estate. There's a limo parking lot, there's a tent, there's like a beer garden kind of thing, and some other assets that are giving a certain amount of entertainment to the guests. But this is seven acres that could very easily accommodate a new podium, a new tower. Could be the first asset on that western side of the Strip, to actually have truly strip front gaming. If you know the Strip well, you know that the east side assets are actually all right up against the sidewalk, and you can walk right from the sidewalk into or onto, I should say, a casino floor. The west side is more of a suburban model. All the houses if you will, are set way back from the street. So it's a long walk into city center, it's a long walk into Bellagio, it's a long walk into Caesars Palace Las Vegas, it's is a long walk into Mirage. Caesars with this seven acres, has the opportunity to bring gaming right to that strip on the west side. Caesars is certainly over the years been working on some very compelling designs to densify and animate that corner.
Kevin Vandenboss: Sounds exciting.
Ed Pitoniak: It is.
Deidre Woollard: Well, that's interesting. Are you seeing a lot of development from other hotels, other venues on the Las Vegas trip right now? Seems like development has slowed a little bit in recent years.
Ed Pitoniak: It has actually, Deidre. Vegas, very little, well, I shouldn't say very little, basically zero supply growth since 2010. That came on the heels of a massive upsurge in supply. Unfortunately coming right into the great financial crisis, and this would have been in the form of assets like cosmopolitan, like CityCenter, like the new wind assets obviously. Then it all went quiet. We will see, I think within the next month or two, the opening of Resorts World, what looks to be a very compelling property developed by the Asian gaming company Genting. That will represent the first new supply to have opened it and what will be then 11-and-a-half years. What's interesting now and exciting, and it speaks to how promising the future of Las Vegas is, there's really been three items of news. The first came within, I think the last month or two when coke industries, which are quite famous for being very shrewd allocators of capital announced that they are coming in to help revive the Fontainebleau project that started just as a financial crisis was commencing, had to be mothball, and now what I guess will be probably 12 or 13 years later, is going to see a full revival of the development with the original Fontainebleau entrepreneurs and Coke Industries capital. Again, we think a pretty ringing endorsement of the outlook for Las Vegas. You also have seen just in recent weeks, Hyatt announced that it's going to come into the Rio asset, which is just over the highway from the strip. That's indicative of the fact that major hotel brands like Hyatt recognized Vegas is a place they have to be if they're going to be a highly relevant use hotel brand, both through the leisure traveler and the convention business. Then finally, you saw just this morning, the news break that the San Manuel Drive, which is one of the most successful tribes in American gaming, is going to buy the Palms from Red Rock. We'll be bringing all of the very loyal customers that they have, obviously east of LA to Las Vegas as well. The Rio and the Palms are not development projects per se, but they do speak to the extent to which new capital wants to come into Vegas.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting, I've been following that front-end blue project for a long time. [laughs] That's been quite a journey. But it's interesting that now we're in this period of revival in Las Vegas.
Ed Pitoniak: It is, and I think there's a number of factors that are contributing to it. First of all, it's just a phenomenal tourist destination. There is so much that goes on there. We recently announced obviously the acquisition of the real estate of the Venetian. The Venetian is eight million square feet. The Venetian did $1.8 billion of revenue in 2019, which we believe because we haven't been able to find any asset that out-produced it, is the most revenue produced within a single real estate asset in America. How do you produce $1.8 billion of revenue in an asset like that? Well, you don't want in their case to be solely through gaming. Gaming is about 20 percent of the revenue in that asset, or at least it was in 2019. The other big drivers are obviously the convention business, which represents an enormous part of the business at the Venetian, given that it has 2.3 million square feet of convention space. It's the largest privately-owned convention center in America. When you get convention visitors, trade show visitors, CES announced they're coming back to Vegas live and in-person in early January and you get leisure travelers, you get the highest occupancies in America. Coming into COVID, the big Vegas drip assets were running 90 percent plus occupancy. I've run two hotel rates. I cannot tell you how hard [laughs] it is to run 90 percent plus occupancy. Because the unfortunate dirty little secret in the hotel business, every night of the week weighs 14 points. The toughest night of the week, obviously, in the conventional hotel business, Sunday nights, you can't give it away on Sunday nights. Well, you know what? In Vegas, not only do you not have to give it away, you can charge for it. Because it is a destination where the entire infrastructure, whether it's air lift, the taxi fleets, the room count, the entertainment options, add up to again, the most compelling grown up tourism destination in America bar-none.
Kevin Vandenboss: How is that Venetian deal coming along? I think reading you guys were looking at the second half of 2021. Are you still on track for that?
Ed Pitoniak: Yeah. Yes. The big task during this period is for Apollo, certain officers of Apollo to be licensed within Nevada, which is what everybody has to go through in order to operate a casino. But no, we're very confident, we're on track for that. I'm very excited by the opportunity to steward what Sheldon Adelson built there. Again, very, very positive about that.
Kevin Vandenboss: That's a huge deal and I'd want to definitely congratulate you on that. That's phenomenon. Thank you.
Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, well, Apollo, our partner, Apollo has been busy. You saw the news about buying AOL and Yahoo yesterday. David Zember, with whom we worked on The Venetian deal, was just on CNBC talking about AOL and Yahoo. This ties, if you don't mind, it ties to, I think it really critically important topic in understanding gaming as a consumer sector right now at this particular time, within the US economy and within US culture. The big tailwind that's emerging behind gaming right now in America is sports betting. It wasn't too long ago where the only place you can do it in America was Las Vegas. We're on track now to have at least a couple of dozen states having legalized sports betting. There's very avid discussion in places like Texas and Georgia and elsewhere. That's sports betting. It's being added in Florida as we speak. The way we, as a real estate owner think about sports betting isn't so much about that direct revenue this sports betting represents. It's the fact that sports betting gives the American's gaming operators a chance to engage in one of the two great conversation topics in American culture, day-to-day. One of them is weather. You can't bet on weather on commodities markets [laughs] and the other is sports. If we think about gaming as a consumer discretionary sector, in order for gaming to increase its share of consumer discretionary spending, both the spending of time and money, you have to first grow your share of mind because you want the consumer to be thinking about, ''Well, I want to go to Las Vegas or I want to go to New Orleans, I want to go to Lake Tahoe or Atlantic city when I have an opportunity to spend leisure time and money.'' But you're not going to be top of mind unless you have grown your share of voice. So that you are sending out messaging that engages and activates the consumer and makes you top of mind. Well, the conventional paradigm of gaming, like unconventional marketing paradigm of Sony businesses, was tied to things like direct mail. Well, I don't know, but it's where my daughter, I don't think they even know where their physical mailboxes are. Because in their minds, they never receive anything of consequence in the physical mailbox. That's just not the way it works anymore. It's very opportune that sports betting comes along at a time. When for gaming, it can be the new way of communicating with potential and existing customers. Every day on ESPN, thanks to Caesars exclusive partnership with ESPN, Caesars gets sighted as the source of all the sports betting information under the ESPN. Caesars is going to be the official sports betting Partner of the NFL.
Ed Pitoniak: One of our other big tenants, Olin's, Barstool, are controlling interest in Barstool. When Penn sends out messages to the 66 million members of Barstool nation, it is achieving a level of communication and engagement it could never have dreamed up under the old paradigm, just could not. This is again, where we are so excited, more excited than ever, about the business of our tenants. Because our tenants have picked up a technology-enabled secular tailwind, that should greatly increase their share of market in American consumer discretionary. As you all know, Deidre and Kevin, right now, this is the one-time when the conventional wisdom is right. The conventional wisdom says, the American consumer is going to go pretty crazy for a while here.
Deidre Woollard: That's very true, I'm wondering about gaming in terms of sports betting, what opportunities in other cities does it open up for VICI and for other companies?
Ed Pitoniak: To your point, Deidre, sports betting is woven into an increasing acceptance of gaming overall, and increasing adoption of gaming within new jurisdictions. As an example, Virginia is now really starting to get into the gaming business. Our tenant Caesars has the opportunity now to develop a new Casino in Danville, Virginia, which we'll actually have a right of first refusal on should they ever want to monetize our real estate. You're also looking at bidding processes for new Casinos in Richmond and Norfolk, I believe it is. Similarly, you're hearing noise around other states as well that either want to enter the gaming business or expand the gaining business in their states. In some cases, you're talking brick-and-mortar and sports betting. In other cases, sports betting is proving to be the gaming water that states are giving their toes in first.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. I have a [inaudible 00:19:21] question. We've seen obviously gaming increase a lot. We're also seeing cannabis laws change in different states. I know Las Vegas is developing as the destination for cannabis, entertainment and salesperson in some ways, is that something you are looking at as well?
Ed Pitoniak: [laughs] No
Deidre Woollard: No? Interesting.
Ed Pitoniak: One key reason is because many gaming jurisdictions do not allow licensed participants in the gaming industry in those states to be in any way, shape, or form associated with cannabis business, legal, or otherwise. That is a simple no [laughs] in our case.
Kevin Vandenboss: Now, with this talking about a bit of a changing landscape in the gaming industry, with that, are you expecting to see more companies enter the gaming real space?
Ed Pitoniak: Yeah, Kevin we started to see it in late 2019 when Blackstone's privately traded non-listed REIT known as the BREIT came in and bought the Bellagio at a very high priced, at very low cap rate. But in fact, we think bought a phenomenal piece of real estate at a very attractive price. Blackstone was really the first non-gaming REIT to come into gaming real estate. Then they doubled down, if you will, when they bought with MGP and other gaming REIT, bought the real estate of MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay back in January of 2020. We were starting to see this encouraging of new capital in the gaming real estate and thus the validation of gaming real estate by great institutional investors like Blackstone. Then of course, COVID hit and it all went quiet. We obviously with Apollo, were the first to make really big noise as we begin to recover from COVID with the Venetian deal. But I think what you will see as a continuing realization on the part of institutional real estate investment managers, the gaming real estate represents very, very attractive returns relative to all of their other investment opportunities. I'm sure there's a lot of your viewers and listeners understand, one of the fundamental ways of talking about real estate value is in terms of what's called the cap rate. In case anyone doesn't know what a cap rate means within real estate investment, it simply means the yield you get on your investment. If I buy a building and it's going to pay me six dollars of rent a year and I paid $100 for it, I've paid what's called a six cap for it. Because I'm paying $100, getting six dollars of rent. Thus a six percent yield, thus I've paid the six percent cap rate, well, as it happens, we paid a 6.25 percent cap rate for the Venetian. To put that into perspective, if you want to buy an office building in New York or San Francisco or Chicago, you're going to play a cap rate that probably starts with four. You're going to wonder, "Why I'm I doing this exactly? Because I have vacancy risk. I have this new thing called work from home. I have my tenanting, I'm not going to need as much space anymore. They may already be subletting and competing with me to at least any space I have to lease and landlord. Then when somebody moves out, I'm going to have to bring a new tenant in, I have to spend the capex on their tenant improvements". My honest yield here is not very attractive. It's not going to take too long for people to realize, she's gaming real estate, especially when we buy it as we do on what's called a triple-net basis, this is really good. Then this is probably not a primary concern of your members, but a lot of capital in the equity markets gets invested by pension funds and endowments that have to think in terms of long-dated liabilities. If I'm a pension fund manager, I have to be asking the question, where does the income come from 40-50 years from now, that must be distributed to my pensioners, to the people that work for? I'm I going to trade in and out of stocks for the next 40 years? That's a lot of pressure to get it right. On the other hand, is there an equity asset I can buy that has a business model that's actually designed to deliver value 30 or 40 years from now? Well, our leases effectively run 35-50 years. The rent we collect today is going to escalate on an average basis, on an average per share basis of around two percent, which is fairly rare among REITS. We also have CPI kickers. In many cases, our leases call for the hire of either two percent rent escalation per year, compounded obviously, or CPI, whichever's higher. Again, I realize it may not be a super hot topic among Motley Fool members. But for a lot of institutional capital, I think there's going to be a growing recognition that, "Oh, I like this. It's a really long dated asset, 35-50 years". The income escalates and has CPI protection. I actually in real terms and in pretty confidence, I will get a real return above inflation for the next few decades. That's probably going to lead to increasing investment in the equities of REITS and on gaming real estate. It could even lead to the day when pension funds start owning these assets directly. Among America's biggest real estate owners are among others, Canadian pension funds. They have these massive direct investment in arms. Oxford Properties, Ivanhoe, Cambridge, Cadillac, Fairview, they quietly own a bunch of buildings around wherever you happen to work or leave.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. I want to ask you about acquisitions, you've acquired 14 assets over the past 42 months. Are you looking at deals right now? I know there's a lot of capital out there looking for distressed assets. Is that something you're thinking about?
Ed Pitoniak: We would be if our category was in distress, but [laughs] it never happened. I mean, our operators are regional assets, Deidre. By July or August, having reopened a number of our regional assets in July and August of 2020, we're doing more in operating profit than they had the year before. They were usually running less revenue because of capacity restrictions but these operators are such great operators. We don't have any distressing gaming. There may be opportunities outside of gaming where we can help as a capital source where there has been distressed. But to your point, we've been very busy. We've done $12 billion of acquisitions in roughly 40 odd months we've existed. We've raised more equity than any other REIT in America during that period, we've raised eight billion dollars of equity in the open market. We have a business model that enables us to be continually forward-looking.
Edward Pitoniak: I do feel Deidre like I died and went to business model heaven [laughs] over the period you are asking about we've increased our rent, which because of our triple-net structure, means we've increased our net operating income by a billion dollars. Our cash G&A during that period has increased by about $1.5 million. Billion-dollars of new net operating income, one and a half million of increased cash G&A. It's just a wickedly efficient business model. Because we really don't have the property managed. We don't really have much of an asset management function of the actual physical box. We're free to just keep going and looking for opportunities to help people out with capital. Yeah, we're very busy continuing to look at opportunities, and we have importantly, I think for your members Deidre, we have what we believe is that figure this embedded growth pipeline among all of American rates. What I mean by embedded growth pipeline is if we have a package of either right of first refusal or put call agreements that enable us to continue to buy assets over the next few years and to give you an example of that, starting on January 1st, 2022, which used to seem like a long way away, but now it's whatever it is, seven-plus months away. We have the opportunity to call two assets in Indiana from Caesars. We can call them at 7.7 percent cap rates. Very attractive. If they wanted to, they can put them to us at an eight percent cap rate, which will be more attractive. That can constitute growth in 2022. On top of the growth that the Venetian will give us in 2022, given its closing in late 2021. Then beyond that, we have two right of first refusal. Should Caesars decide to sell one or two Las Vegas Strip assets, they believe they're oversupplied on the strip. They are looking at probably in 2022 selling at least one asset, that's more growth for us. We have a put-call arrangement on the brand new Caesars Forum Convention Center, which will host the NFL draft at this time next year, which we can get a call at 7.7 cap beginning, I believe, in 2024. Then we have other rollovers above and beyond that. We have a growth trajectory going forward that we don't think is frankly, by any other region in America that we can think of. It all adds up to continuing deal flow, continuing growth in AFFO per share and AFFO, as many of you may know, is a mother's milk of reach because it represents real cash, not notional net income, but real cash that we can then distribute to our shareholders.
Kevin Vandenboss: Last year, you guys had expanded outside of the gaming a little bit with the mortgage loan to the Chelsea Piers, are you open to do any other investments like that? Other things, little bit outside of the gaming space?
Ed Pitoniak: Very much so Kevin, and the reason being, and we believe this well before COVID, we believe in experiences versus things. If you look into American consumer behavior over much of the last 20 years, you will have seen a growing preference on the part of the American consumer for experiences over things. One thing we really like about experiences is that they are not under the secular threat that almost all things are under when it comes to real estate and the relationship to those things. The way we put it Kevin, is if we want to be in sectors that can't get Amazon. If you sell something, that can be putting a box or sent through a wire, you're in danger of your real estate becoming obsolete or at least of less value, and that obviously implies to a whole bunch of things that gets sold in stores. It also applies to certain experiences that are subject to disruption. Movie theaters being one of them. Amazon and a whole bunch of other people have figured out how to send movies through a wire to your house. What that means for the enduring viability of movie theater real estate is unknown at this point. Is that that they're all going to go away, all the movie theaters? But for every 100 than existed before COVID, do you guys have a sense of how many might exist when this all shakes out? Yeah, I don't know either. But I do know that there are place-based experiences where the place cannot be substituted for. Can be put in a box, can be put through a wire. As we look at those experiential sectors, we see many of the same investment attributes we love so much about gaming. Lower-than-average cyclicality versus consumer discretionary. Gaming is actually a lower cyclicality activity in consumer discretionary, believe it or not. Gaming was down only nine percent peak-to-trough in the US during the great financial crisis. Restaurants and retail were down 11 and the S&P 500 revenues were down 18 percent. We'd like lower cyclicality. We again, we don't want secular threat. We want a healthy supply-demand balance. So we tend to prefer assets like Chelsea Piers that are complicated and costly to build. Then finally, number 4, experiencial durability. Experiences and improving their durability over time, and promise to be here for many years to come.
Deidre Woollard: That leads me to another question. I wanted to ask you about eSports. Is that something that you see as having potential in terms of facilities or is that something you feel like maybe is a passing trend?
Edward Pitoniak: Wow, it's gotten so big, it's hard to imagine how it could be Deidre. I know pre-COVID the whole eSports business globally was, I don't know how many multiples greater than the movie business? But a lot of multiples greater than a movie business, that was pre-COVID. I have no idea what it is now. To your question, Deidre, one of the other reasons we're very excited about our Venetian real estate acquisition is that on the backlog of The Venetian is being built, will be the most compelling eSport venue in the world. That being the MSG sphere. It is costing Madison Square Garden, the Company, $1.8 billion to build it. It's going to be an 18,000 seat arena, not designed for team sports, but designed for eSports and music, and will be the most technologically sophisticated arena by far in the world. We're very excited what that can mean in terms of Las Vegas having yet another tool in addition to sports betting, to attract its next-generation of customers. Now, I'm really old guy Deidre. So I have to confess, I totally don't get 18,000 people sitting at Arena watching other kids your age play video games on stage. But I'm just willing to accept the fact that they seem to love it and bring it on [laughs].
Deidre Woollard: Yeah, it's not something I understand either, but it definitely seems to be growing massively.
Edward Pitoniak: Kevin, do you? [laughs].
Kevin Vandenboss: I don't get it, but I know I've seen my kids watch hours of YouTube videos of other kids are playing Minecraft's [laughs].
Edward Pitoniak: Yeah, it's another example of the Amazon Midas Touch. They buy this thing I've never heard of called Twitch and the next thing you know, Twitch is one of the most more valuable parts of the whole Amazon platform, which is pretty game valuable to begin with.
Deidre Woollard: Well, great. Well, thank you so much for your time today. This was really, really fascinating and such a treat for our viewers.
Edward Pitoniak: My pleasure, you know one thing I didn't mention Deidre that may be of interest to viewers is that the ability of a rate to grow its dividend is obviously dependent upon the ability of the rate to grow its income. That's what a rate does, it distributes its income. We were able to put forth when a larger dividend increases of any large-cap American rate last year at 10.9 percent. With the growth in distributable cash that we're enjoying so far this year, we just reported last week 24 percent growth in distributable cash. We should be in a position to put forth a very nice dividend increase this year when we do so as we typically do in Q3.
Deidre Woollard: Fantastic, and so you distribute your dividends quarterly?
Ed Pitoniak: Yes, we do.
Deidre Woollard: Fantastic. Kevin, any last thoughts?
Kevin Vandenboss: No. I think you answered everything that I've been wondering and I think you guys are doing a great job. I know you guys. It's exciting watching what you guys are doing. Congratulations on all that and we'll see what you guys do in the rest of the year.
Edward Pitoniak: Well, we're having a lot of fun, Kevin, and maybe one of the last things I'd leave you with is that, if you look at a chart of our stock, you could sit there today on May 4th, and just I'd never look at our price in today, so don't even tell me what we're doing today. But you could look at our stock over the last few months ago, man, I missed it on VICI. You haven't missed it. Because if you are a debtor of that old school metrics like IM, the price-earnings growth ratio, you always want to understand what am I paying for the growth I'm getting, and in the case of VICI, oh no, Am I still here?
Deidre Woollard: You're still here.
Edward Pitoniak: Yeah. Sorry about that. In case of VICI, we have one of the lowest peg ratios, probably the lowest peg ratio of any large cap rate in America. It's probably going to be pretty close to one-to-one, and that's at a time when most of their rates are probably well above a two-to-one peg ratio, at least. So you haven't missed the run because we have a lot of growth to come that is not yet priced into the stock.