Deidre Woollard: Hello. I'm Deidre Woollard, an editor at Millionacres. Thank you so much for tuning into the Millionacres Podcast. Getting funds is often the toughest part of any project. When it comes to hard money loans, I think a lot of investors are scared to begin, don't know where to start, very concerned about that. Today we are going to demystify all of that with Michael Bourque, who is the CEO of LendingHome, one of the country's biggest lenders to real estate investors. He became the CEO of LendingHome at the end of 2020. He's got decades of experience, and LendingHome was established in 2013, and it's originated over seven billion in loans so far. Welcome, Michael.
Michael Bourque: Thank you. Thrilled to be here.
Deidre Woollard: Well, let's talk about the current market because I feel like it's a little bit challenging for anyone who wants to be in the flipping business. Return on investment, awesome. Prices have never been higher. Finding a deal and finding financing, that seems a little bit more challenging. What are you seeing?
Michael Bourque: For sure it's been an interesting 18 months in real estate. We're actually still seeing just tremendous activity both across our fixed and flip product as well as our single-family rental products. It seems like each month this year we're setting new company records, everything from loan submits to funded volumes. It's really incredible to see. I think from a customer perspective, obviously housing inventory has been incredibly tight. But our customers are incredibly motivated and eventful, scrappy and very good at finding opportunities both on and off market and that's really what they're doing. I think the thing I'd say though is now more than ever, you really need to be prepared to know exactly what kind of project you want from a price, location, size, rehab perspective so when something comes up that hits those marks, you're ready to move quickly, and that's what we're seeing.
Deidre Woollard: That makes a lot of sense. Let's start with the basics. What is your flipping product and what is the definition of a hard money loan?
Michael Bourque: Sure. I don't really like that hard money term. I think it harkens back to a day when real estate investors really struggled to find contemporary tech forward lending partners at reasonable rates and terms. The way we talk about it is we call them bridge loans. Really bridge loans are just short-term loans secured by real estate. They are typically done for a property in transition. All of our lending is business purpose in nature, so we don't do anything that's owner-occupied or consumer. That's really how we define the products.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. You couldn't use it for something like a house hack?
Michael Bourque: Not if you're living in the property.
Deidre Woollard: These loans, they are generally at a higher interest rate than traditional loans. Are the prevailing interest rates that we're seeing, which have been obviously very, very low, do they impact of the interest rates?
Michael Bourque: They do a bit. I think if you go back in time, historically, the space was funded by private lenders. Typically they raised capital from high net worth individuals, didn't usually apply leverage. That high interest rate on the loan itself was usually enough to shield investors from interest rate fluctuations that might move around. The space has become more institutionalized as you've seen a lot more Wall Street capital come in. Through the efforts of companies like LendingHome, we've been able to reduce our cost of capital, and so in turn, pass savings to customers. With that though, the exposure to interest rates has increased a bit just given how much of volumes are being financed by more traditional capital markets areas. But it's still a bit disconnected, less connected than the consumer mortgage space.
Deidre Woollard: That makes sense. The process itself compared to the consumer mortgage space, generally a lot faster, right? What sort of qualifications are you looking for?
Michael Bourque: We really look at both the individuals through the entity that they're typically borrowing in. Over 95 percent of our transactions are with entities, not individuals. But we do look through who some of the principals are. Then we look at the property characteristics, not just what it looks like today, but the scope of the renovations that the customer might be interested in, we run all sorts of analytics to basically predict what we think that property is going to be worth after the repair in say, 6-7 months when that property could come back to market. But because it's business purpose in nature, there is no overlay or let's say the consumer federal mortgage rules and requirements. In that sense, you're allowed to do things a bit more quickly and there's less of that built in.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. You said analytics, are you using any kind of machine learning? Is this mostly done by people? What's that process looks like right now?
Michael Bourque: It's really a combination. At LendingHome, we have a home-built platform invested between $90 and $100 million over the last seven years. Building that out, it allows our customers to have a seamless online experience. A lot of what we do is standardized around that data, both ingesting information that's widely available and also creating our own analytics. We have, I think, six or seven AI machines learning models running today, typically looking at what do we believe the after repair value is going to be of that home and crunching all of the different inputs to predict the value of that property. We still have awesome, incredible people that help shepherd loans through the process and perform critical steps of the process. But more and more, we're seeing automation come in, remove more of the, let's say, less value add type activities and allow our people to focus on the things that really matter and make a difference both for us and for our customers.
Deidre Woollard: That makes sense because that's a lot of what I'm hearing from other technology companies involved in real estate is that really the machine learning and the AI takes care of all of the things that are standard and then flags the things that really need someone with expertise to take a look at.
Michael Bourque: It really gives great leverage too. I think it makes our operation teams, it makes their jobs better. Removing some of the more routine, mundane type activities, if that can be done by the system, that's terrific. Also gives you great leverage so as you grow, you get some leverage on the technology and get benefit that way.
Deidre Woollard: That makes sense. Let's talk a little bit about the rules for bridge funds. It seems like they vary a lot by state. Why is that and do you think that that's going to change at any point?
Michael Bourque: Yeah. It is different. I think it's similar in some ways to consumer mortgage, where each of the state regulatory bodies has their own requirements around consumer mortgage lending. I think on the business purpose side, it's far less than what you see on the consumer side, but you still have some differences state-to-state. I think the most common place you see engagement is really around the cost to customers, whether it's in rates and points to make sure that lenders are looking at usually tactics and things like that. Some states have more involved licensing requirements than others and different rules come into it. But what's interesting is that the bridge lending space is heavily fragmented and it's existed this way for decades. Our analysis says there is over 22,000 lenders that are active in the space today. What's interesting is that it really had been a local game, and so local lenders operated in their own geographies and territories and introduced and evolved practices in those areas over time. You ended up with these almost mini-ecosystems of lending behaviors and norms that vary across different parts of the country. One of the things that we are really excited to do at LendingHome is bring a national view or at least a more national view in 28 states today, again leveraging the technology and the data analysis that we have to put together a very competitive loan package for customers and give them a great experience to almost systematize the rules around this type of lending activity to fit any state. We're excited with the progress we've been able to make so far and interested to continue to grow.
Deidre Woollard: Twenty-two thousand lenders, that's a lot. Do you think there's going to be some consolidation in that space? Is that what you are seeing right now?
Michael Bourque: I think you've seen a handful of companies, 5, 6, 7 maybe begin to flex their muscles and grow more and try to play beyond maybe a city or state geography. There has been different regional lenders that have popped up in the Southeast or in California or New England. As they've grown and found success, they continue to try to expand. I think that's just natural. We haven't seen yet a ton of companies buying up top 10 like competitors. What we have seen is more and more of the capital investments coming in to the space where more traditional financial institutions are investing in these originators to get access to the high-yielding loans, which provides those companies growth or capital to help grow their businesses. In turn, the Wall Street institutions love the yields and the interest rates and the performance, especially most recently from these types of loans. That's been an interesting dynamic that we've seen.
Deidre Woollard: That makes sense. I know that in the past, it seemed like people who are having businesses, they go to the same lender over and over. There wasn't really a lot of competition partly because there were all of those smaller lenders. You just go to the guy that you always go to. Seems like that's starting to change a little bit. Maybe there's a little more competition. Is that also something you've taken a look at?
Michael Bourque: I think a big part of it too is just transparency in the flow of information. If somebody can come to our site and within five or 10 minutes input some information and understand what their lending terms might be, that's radically different from where things were even five years ago. It allows somebody to make sure that they're getting the best deal for them, whether that's in rated terms. We've seen, especially among more of the professional real estate investors and those who do a lot of projects and are very active, they're very sophisticated. They understand who's out there and the strengths of the relative companies, and really almost set up their operations around their partner of choice to really make sure there's good integration. This ends up being a seamless part of their operations.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. Is something like the CFPB involved in lending for these types of loans?
Michael Bourque: Again, because these are business purpose loans, I guess CFPB, their first letter is consumer, they're really not focused on a consumer product. That said, we're very mindful of all of the regulations that have grown up and evolved in the consumer mortgage space. I have a background in consumer mortgage servicing and certainly understand the requirements there, and are very mindful of fair lending practices and things like that that we make sure we abide by. But it's not I guess, in their mandate today. But nonetheless, a lot of the principles that they've evolved in that space, we and many of our competitors apply anyway.
Deidre Woollard: That makes sense. You mentioned that you are working with entities, not individuals. If you're a flipper, you're planning your first project, do you need to set up an LLC first or what do you need to do to start thinking about getting this type of loan?
Michael Bourque: In some states, you have to be an entity, and others, you don't, so it really just varies. You can do it online. It's a relatively quick process. Thinking about this question, I reached out to one of our sales leaders, Charles Goodwin who's better lending home for a long time, but is also a real estate investor and flipper himself. What's interesting is so many real estate investors talk to each other and are willing to share their information. I asked him what he would share with people starting out and we have four or five things that I think are relevant. I think the first, make sure you research your local market, really understand the area you're trying to dive into. Everything comes in the market today and where you think things are trending. But also understanding that some of the details like what features so well in the area you're in. Oftentimes, you may have an expectation of a home you want to live in, but that may not fit in the neighborhood you're investing in, and you can create an over-investment situation that eats into your returns. Really thinking about the needs of the home: bedrooms, bathrooms, square footage, etc., and setting up a good view on the way in is important. Next is coming up with the budget and business plan and really [laughs] sticking to it. You need to build in flexibility because there will be things that come up that can jeopardize your returns. But planning ahead creates wiggle room for you and an ability to weather some of those things that are certain to happen. Next is really developing strong relationships with your partners. Obviously, I'll start with lenders and having a lender you trust is critical to the success of a project. But equally important is making sure that you've got good partners from whether it's real estate agents or stagers, or contractors, attorneys, etc. Different investors will have different needs, but ultimately having a good team around you is really important. Next is setting up a really strict timeline with your contractors and only paying them incrementally as they complete work within the renovation. You don't want to advance too much cash. You don't want to take away an incentive for them to complete a project or a next step of a project on time. That's really helpful to keep things moving along. Then lastly, just make sure you're staying educated. Things change constantly, especially today in this environment. Keep in the know, read, network, learn from others. Especially when you're starting out everybody loves to share their horror stories and the things that maybe burn them in the past. It's a great way to get started and benefit from lessons and tough times that others have been through, and really just ask questions. I think with that and with the right attitude and planning, it's something that I think anybody can do and get into and be successful. But you need to appreciate the responsibility you're taking on.
Deidre Woollard: It's definitely risky and I've heard some of those horror stories too. From the lender perspective, what happens when you've got a flipper who is in trouble, maybe there's that contractor delay that you were talking about or something like that, what happens when a loan starts going sideways?
Michael Bourque: Another area or place we use data at LendingHome is on the servicing side as well. A simple example would be, working backwards, if it's a 12-month loan. Let's say this was pre-pandemic in New Jersey, and the average days on market there could be 90-120 days, and you work backwards on their scope of work. Let's say, two months in they haven't taken their first draw, which means they spent money and they are starting to do the work. Given the scope of what they're trying to do, you can identify pretty easily that they might have some challenges around that timeline. One of the things we do is proactively identify just based on the progress people are making through their loans, whether or not we think the timeline's at risk. We reach out to them, understand the situation. It could be delays in permitting, it could be issues with contractors, as you mentioned. But one of the things that we've been able to do proactively with many customers that have found themselves in different situations is actually identify maybe a partner for them, pair them up with another real estate investor in the area who might help them get that project to completion buy them out of the property. Really looking at different ways to help make sure that they can get through it. As you get through the renovation or you get later in the project and maybe as markets change or there's a localized issue, or let's say COVID comes up and everybody is trying to figure out what that means, we really try to make sure we work with our customers to figure out the best situation. Often times it could be just extending the long-term three months. If the property is finished and it's just getting listed, we feel good about that. That's something that we do maybe 10 percent of the time. But really it's about working with customers, understanding their situation, and then looking at what the data tells us relative to where we think the house is positioned, what the market is doing, and what's going to be the best outcome for our customers.
Deidre Woollard: Well, you mentioned the pandemic a couple of time there. What was that like for LendingHome and where you're at now?
Michael Bourque: I think like everybody the situation was a bit scary. One of the things I guess, specifically related to LendingHome we fund our business using revolving securitizations. A way to think about that is every four or five months we issue another one. It gives us almost semi-permanent capital and we have our maturities laddered out over multiple years. We had access to capital through day 1 of the pandemic when many of our competitors didn't, and so as things were evolving and you saw a lot of the mortgage and commercial mortgage rates trying to figure out their liquidity situation. They weren't in a position to buy loans from our competitors, and many of our competitors actually close their doors. There was a moment where it really hit home. Word got out that we were still open. We still have capital. We were funding loans and I think between a Friday night and a Sunday morning we saw 30 million of loan submits come in. It was really startling because everybody else didn't know what was going to happen. We made some adjustments to our terms. We lowered leverage, we increased prices in fees a little bit just to make sure that we were using our capital wisely and creating flexibility. But what's interesting is through that process, we were able to stand by our best customers, all of our customers, but also demonstrate to many of the best customers of our competitors that we were reliable. We were there, we were going to be able to support them through the process. Maybe the terms would be a little bit different, but we were there to help them. We actually won a significant number of great customers from some of our competitors, and really haven't looked back. I think we had a little bit of a self-imposed pause and some of our growth right at the start of the pandemic, I think we might have bottomed out around 75 million of lending that month. We're up to almost 300 million a month now and really are proud of how we've been able to support our real estate investor customers through this process.
Deidre Woollard: That's fantastic. Let's take a quick break here.
Deidre Woollard: Before the break, we talked a little bit about the pandemic. One of the things that I'm keeping an eye on right now is the massive scramble for single-family rental homes. We've got companies like Invitation Homes. We've got private, non-traded REITs putting billions of dollars towards this. We've got individual investors trying to find homes. What is that looking like from your perspective?
Michael Bourque: Yeah, it's been fascinating to see the institutional investor demand in the space, I think you realize is all these companies are looking at two or three big things driving their investment decisions. They want yields. They have money to put to work. Single-family homes and single-family rental homes in particular are generally a relatively safe asset class. Interestingly, it's also a great hedge against inflation as both property values and rents should rise with inflation. Today with the specter of inflation on the horizon, I think it's a place where a lot of folks are looking to put money to work, and so we've seen the reports like everybody else of institutional investors competing with homeowners to purchase new homes. But systematically haven't really seen to become an issue yet for our customers. If you think about the nature of the types of homes our customers are targeting are typically aged homes in need of renovations. The institutional investors are really targeting something a bit different. More move-in ready homes or homes that maybe require less repair, and really focused on trying to buy homogeneous properties outside of the suburban metro areas, Atlanta, Phoenix, etc., where things are pretty standard. That said, we've heard from some customers that institutional investors have actually started becoming the buyers of their homes, or we'll say the takeout on the property after they finished the renovation because now those homes are move-in ready and become good additions to those SFR portfolios. But it's definitely an interesting trend and something that we're going to watch closely.
Deidre Woollard: I think the other thing that fascinates me about that trend too, is the relationship between those institutional portfolios and the iBuyers: Redfin, Zillow, Opendoor. We're seeing a lot of iBuyers in certain markets that are then selling properties to those institutional portfolios. Does the rise of the iBuyer have any impact on your customers in terms of competition?
Michael Bourque: Yes and no. I think if you take a step back, what our customers are doing and what the iBuyers are doing is basically taking an existing home, making some improvements to it and then bringing it back to the market today. The difference being that the iBuyers really are focusing on cosmetic rehabs, maybe homes that require five or 10 grand worth of renovation versus something that might require 30 or 40, and they're really also only looking at homes built, let's say from 1995 or 2000 to today. If you really just plot the birth year of each home that those companies have transacted, the average age is the year 1999 or 2000. If you compare that to all the transactions LendingHome has done in its history, that data is 1966. In some ways, our customers are doing the same thing and the iBuyers are focused on a very different property and that being the aged home of America.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting, that's one of the things that I'm thinking a lot about when it comes to the iBuyers because they are just starting to get into those older Northeast markets where you've got more older homes, properties that are all a little bit had their own quirks versus ones that are all in a single development. You brought up loan size, what is the average loan size at LendingHome?
Michael Bourque: Yeah, today it's about [laughs] 280,000.
Deidre Woollard: Excellent. I'm going to ask you another product that you have because you have this program for people who are building a rental property business, and I think that's really fascinating. How does that work?
Michael Bourque: Yeah. The impetus for us launching these products really just came from my customers. Simply, they wanted the ability to hold onto a renovated home. Earning their return by cash-flowing the property over time instead of having to sell it. Really deploying a buy-fix-rent strategy, and so we've seen cases where customers will start flipping homes with us, and then I'll say, "I want to take one out of every third or fourth flipped, and I want to keep it and become a landlord," as a way for them to build up a passive income portfolio. Really like a cash-flowing annuity that can provide them income overtime. What people say is that they love real estate investing, they love the process of flipping homes, but it is operationally intensive, and so at some point they're going to want to stop, and so having a portfolio of rental homes that can provide a sustained cash flow and income is attractive to them. So our rental product gives them an easy way to refinance once they refinance the bridge loan into a rental loan with the same great level of service and a competitive product, and so we're really excited to see the adoption of the product so far. It's still relatively small compared to our bridge business, but we're really excited about the future of the product.
Deidre Woollard: It makes sense because I know so many investors are interested in the BRRRR method and that's something we talked a lot about on the podcast. On these mortgages, it looks like you're offering adjustable rates shorter terms by then seven year, why is that?
Michael Bourque: Yes, we have a range of offerings, everything from a 30-year fixed to the arms that you mentioned. Really, it's just about giving customers the flexibility to find a product that works for them. Oftentimes we have customers who want to lock in a-30 year fixed mortgage as they see their ownership horizon as indefinite and maybe even something they want to pass onto their kids someday. But other times they might be operating with a shorter time horizon and a 5-7 year product might work for them. The other thing is, that sometimes drives the interest in this product is just the relative cash flow implications on a property as obviously, the mortgage payments on a 5-7 year arm or typically lower than a fixed rate mortgage, and that's something that sometimes people opt for as well.
Deidre Woollard: Excellent. I noticed that you've refinanced a few larger projects, there was rental home community in Florida. Are you thinking about getting more into that business? It sounds like that's maybe a small portion of LendingHome's portfolio right now, but is that something you are planning to expand?
Michael Bourque: We are. In the situation you referenced, we were actually the bridge lender on, and I think it was something like 50 homes in that community, and we're excited to refinance them into our portfolio rental loan and actually satisfy the needs of what the customer wanted. It's great relationship for us and we were excited to do that. That's really how we're thinking about product expansion, both for lending products and non-lending products, is trying to answer the question what do our customers need next to be successful? Or said another way like, how can we help our customers grow their business? We've had the privilege to work with some customers that have done hundreds of flips with us and then begin taking rental loans with us, and as they continue to build that inventory of rental homes, we want to be able to be there to offer them our portfolio rental loan when it makes sense for them to do that and keep that relationship. Really as we see it as our customers build and grow their business and find success, we want to be able to build and grow with them, and that's what's driving the expansion.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. You said you've got customers that have hundreds of flips. What's the average? Is the average someone who's done a few flips or someone who's done a lot of flips? Who's your target average customer?
Michael Bourque: We serve every type of customer well, but we serve them differently. In any given month about 80 percent of our loans are done more like professional type real estate investors, people who might do five or more transactions in a given year. Given that experience and that track record they end up with a different customer experience than somebody who maybe it's just starting out. But we serve those customers equally well and so it's really exciting to see. We had many customers who come in, have learned the business and have grown up from first-timers into professionals and really have generated meaningful wealth, impacted their communities in a great way and so it's exciting to see. But the majority of our transactions today are with professional real estate investors, but we're very much invested in helping building growth the next-generation of professionals at the same time.
Deidre Woollard: I love that. You have a product for passive income for accredited investors. That's fascinating to me. What is that and how does it work?
Michael Bourque: Over the years, we've had different strategies to fund the business. Everything from a peer-to-peer marketplace at the beginning of the company's life, where accredited retail investors could buy fractional shares in loans to a managed fund, to the securitizations that were running now. Each step in this journey brought with it a much more competitive cost of capital, which we've used to help grow the business also lower our costs for our customers. In the case you mentioned we were at a point where the peer-to-peer marketplace just wasn't competitive enough relative to what institutional investors would want to pay for those loans through our securitizations. Retail investor might want seven or eight percent interest rate on a loan and we were selling loans in our securitization, let's say four percent. It's just a very big difference from a cost of capital perspective. As we thought about the evolution of the marketplace, we still have tens of millions of dollars on the platform invested in loans that were in various stages of paying off. Arvind Mohan, our COO today and leader of our capital markets at the time, had the idea to see if investors would actually want to just keep their money with LendingHome, but this time in the form of some unsecured notes. What we found was enough of them did and so we have now a population of accredited retail investors earning about a six percent annual return on what turns out to be 90-day notes. It's not something we've marketed broadly, but it has been a nice solution for these investors who wanted a place they were comfortable parking this capital and it's also helped us, just from an ongoing working capital perspective to have that available.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. You became CEO right around the time that LendingHome raised its Series E Funding round. What is next for LendingHome? Is it going to be actively raising another round? Is there any chance you're thinking about early-stages of going public? Have you had any offers from SPACs? What's that climate like for you?
Michael Bourque: It's been a really interesting journey since taking over in December. Like everybody in the fast-growing fintech space, observed and had some conversations around what was taking place in SPAC market. I think for us, we're really focused on just continuing to try to build and grow what we believe is a really special company. We mentioned the recovery and the growth we've seen since the pandemic. We're really proud of how we've been able to continue to win and support customers in this environment. We're continuing to invest in our machine learning and automation technologies to help our customers make good decisions and continue to find ways to help them be successful. Look, at some point will we be a public company? I would imagine that, but we're still very focused on building and growing the company and supporting customers every day.
Deidre Woollard: Are there other products that you are thinking about rolling out?
Michael Bourque: We mentioned the additions in the portfolio rental and there's also probably some changes coming around, our ability to do multi-family properties as well as new construction. A lot of our customers evolve into those places and as I said before, we want to be able to support them as they build and grow their business and that's a likely extension of that. What's made us successful is the integration of this signals platform with the data now that we've accumulated over 35,000 transactions, over 900 million data points, that we have turned our machine learning tools towards to identify the real drivers of success. As we sit here today, what we're thinking through is, how do we help use that information we have to help make our customers be more successful, whether it's at the start of their journey with a property, understanding what could that investment turn into, how might they think about a renovation, scope of work, a timeline, risk, returns, etc., all the way through what they might do to renovate that home, who they might work with. Then ultimately, there's been so much change in the real estate space, but at the back-end when the project is done, what might an exit look like for them and are there things that we can help them with in that journey? We're really thinking wing to wing about how do we help continue to make our customers successful from this first step on our project all the way through to the end. Again, leveraging the strengths that we've built up over our seven years now and all these transactions to help set our customers up for success. More to come, we're not going to give away the secrets here, but we're really excited about what's in front of the company.
Deidre Woollard: That's fantastic. You mentioned new construction and that makes me think a lot about build to rent for single family which I've been following. We just keep seeing more and more news on that. Is that something that you're also paying attention to?
Michael Bourque: Absolutely. I was looking at something this morning. I think there's over 500 build-to-rent projects ongoing right now in different parts of the country and it's certainly a strategy. We've seen it at micro level with one individual borrower buying home, renovating, turning it into a rental. Now actually like special purpose building for rental is becoming more and more common and so that's something that we're looking at. Again, as we continue to evolve, I'm sure that's something that we'll take a really hard look at again and trying to continue to serve these customers who are incredibly innovative, finding ways to build and grow their businesses and serve the communities they're in.
Deidre Woollard: Fantastic. I think you touched on this a little bit but last question for you, where do you hope LendingHome will be in five years?
Michael Bourque: We're so excited about the future of LendingHome. It's maybe a little hokey, but simply, we want to be the first company people think about when contemplating or financing a real estate investment. We've talked about the expansion in our traditional lending products. There's a tremendous amount of runway there to continue to grow just by supporting our customers ambitions across fix and flip and rental. But all of these new product extensions are also really exciting opportunities for us. I think on some of the opportunities around new products and new technology that we're working on, trying to help drive success at every step of the real estate process. One example is the property marketplace that we launched I think at the end of 2019, it's now live on our site. It's a way for customers to come and get access to curate it, often exclusive listings that they might not otherwise have seen or have had access to and the idea being everything out there, we believe is attractive returns for real estate investor, but also building other solutions to help make their efforts to find and evaluate properties simpler, easier, and really to put the power of our unique data in their hands early in the process to help set them up for success. It's a lot, it's a big ambition, but I think we've got an awesome team, we've got great customers that we're honored to work with every day and really excited about the company we're building.
Deidre Woollard: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Reminder listeners; you can find out more at lendinghome.com, learn about products they offer. You can always email us at firstname.lastname@example.org to share your thoughts. Stay well and stay invested.