Deidre Woollard: Hello, I'm Deidre Woollard, an editor at Millionacres, and thank you so much for tuning into the Millionacres podcast. Right now, we're at an interesting point in time with regard to the union of public and private capital to fix some of the bigger problems we see as a country, that includes affordable housing. My guest today is Jim White. Dr. Jim White has had a fascinating career in business and real estate. He's the author of multiple books, including Broken America: Ten Guiding Principles to Restore America and Opportunity Investing: How To Revitalize Urban And Rural Communities with Opportunity Funds. He's an advocate for using business techniques to make the world a better place. Welcome, Jim.
Jim White: My pleasure, glad to be with you today Deidre.
Deidre Woollard: I read a couple of your books, and you've got these strong opinions on the role of government in building a better nation, which I really love. I don't want to get too much into politics, because that's not what we do at the Fool, but what do you see is the government's role when it comes to issues like housing and economic development?
Jim White: Government's role when it comes to housing and economic development is to support when necessary, try to remove as many regulations, and oftentimes when I will start out with that word regulations, I get a lot of inquiry afterwards. What do you mean by that, Jim? You mean that we suggest that we have no regulation, we run free, we do what we want? That's not what I'm suggesting whatsoever. What I'm suggesting, and what I've seen over my 40-year career, you may have a project that is ready to go. You may have all of your finances put together, you might have everything. Then you are run into this red tape that will just derail a project. I think the government's role is safety, health, and welfare first and foremost, and to make sure that they're understanding that the private sector can be more involved and create more jobs, sometimes in just government grants or different initiatives. I think it requires just coordination between the private sector and the government, and the government at all levels, meaning from the smallish rural community to the chamber of commerce for everybody to understand it, and what we should and should not be doing, and a lot of our projects get delayed because of lack of decisions, lack of the ability to understand complexity. What I try to do is to take a very complex subject, especially planning commissions, I'm not suggesting that they're not intelligent or qualified, just to the contrary, they are very intelligent and qualified. But however, you oftentimes run into people job for over 20-25 years, they don't have the incentive to make things massive, we'd like to do it. I think the government's role is be open, include us into the discussion, have our local representative do more what I call town hall meetings, if you will, and of course, that's been a challenge in 2020. But they've got to listen to the private sector, and we've got to have some very good economic advisors. If the government puts out a dollar of which we pay for, you and I pay for, all I'm saying listers pay for, we need to understand the return on that investment and to make sure that there is accountability to the investment. That's another thing that I think sometimes I've seen it go too far, no accountability and too much accountability. How do we find the road? Especially at this juncture, it's in May at 2021, we're coming off just a heck of a year. I think better days are ahead of us, but we got to make sure that we are allocating money. We go in debt, the under states continue to go in debt. We need to make sure that we're putting that money in place.
Deidre Woollard: That's a really good point about debt because one of the biggest conversations lately is about infrastructure bills and the massive amount of infrastructure that's really needed, it's very clear that our infrastructure is aging, but there is that big risk of going into debt. It seems like there's some benefit for real estate developers and investors in plans like this though, what are you looking at right now?
Jim White: There is a huge opportunity for developers and investors in the infrastructure side, and I'm going to define infrastructure; I'm talking about broadband, I'm talking about roads, bridges, dams, highways, and there's more to it than that, but I'm going to stay focused on that right now. There are opportunities to major architectural firms, engineering firms, contracting firms that are more than open to come to the table with the government and the public-private partnerships. There's money, there's a lot of money from the private sector that's open to that. However, again, we run into the [inaudible 00:06:30] regulation where a lot of my colleagues over the years, they get turned off because we just want to do a deal. How do we move this forward? You run into so many roadblocks, and that keeps coming up and up and up, and like I said, I am a optimist, and I'm only talking to city councils, planning the commission, I don't care, any opportunity to educate, and if I could educate and break it down into some bits. This is how many dollars you can get into your city. This is how many jobs that we can create and build. Just like to be sound bites, but hold people accountable to measure you're actually doing what you are saying. So I've got the tremendous opportunity right now, because there's over seven trillion dollars sitting on the sidelines on countdown that can be at play and that's from the private sector, and with the bills that we have in front of us, combined with that, I think it's a tremendous opportunity. This is the defining time in our industry and the development industry, and also in America for we can start rebuilding. It wouldn't hurt to have some civility as well and communicate a little bit better with each other. When you go into negotiations, go into negotiation with an open mind, not just my way. It's what negotiation is all about, is to make sure that we find a balance for both sides, and that seems to be missing, in my opinion, of recent, not only in government, also sometimes in the private sector as well. I think it's a tremendous role for the private sector to work with the US government and the local governments as well. In the next few days is going to be $350 billion that's going to hit the state treasuries. What are they going to do with that money? How is that money earmarked? That's not coming from the infrastructure bill that's currently in negotiation. It's over 250 billion, I believe the accurate number is, that's going to hit states because there's so many states that [inaudible 00:08:55] from COVID-19th issue, and how they're going to use that money. I often find that there's not been much planning on receiving that money, how to put it out. I just think we're setting a golden opportunity to open up the country and actually put people back to work. You see my eyes jot around when I use that word because I don't want it to be sound bites, I really want it to be, are we actually doing that and what do we to motivate the employees? What do we do to motivate them where they can say that we won't mower? What's that mean? I start off in any opportunity I get when I was speaking to any of my employees. The quality of life, and I say, "Why do you show up to work every day?" "Well, to make money." I say, "I suggest you wordsmith that a little bit. Looking to create the quality of life for you and your family that you'd like to have, so what are you doing about that?" Create long term value, and right now in the current environment and our industry, we're having difficulty finding a style that actually wants to work, and that's another barrier. Infrastructure development bill or anything else is finding the staff. Being able to fill these jobs.
Deidre Woollard: That is a really good point. One of the things that I've talked about with other people too, is the aging of the average construction worker, that was a factor long before COVID. Now that we're getting back to building, we're coming up against that again. It really is a problem that, how do we get people excited about the trades? There really seems to be a problem there. There's a little bit of a gap between what people see as the opportunities in the trades. That's something I'm looking at too.
Jim White: Yeah. There it is Deidre.
Deidre Woollard: I wanted to talk to you a little bit about cold storage because that's something I think it's really fascinating. I noticed you're the CEO of Growers Ice company, which is a development in Salinas, California. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that opportunity is?
Jim White: Sure. Growers Ice started in 1936. We're one of the oldest what we referred to in fresh produce. What we do is fresh produce post-harvest. When harvest is completed, you bring it to our site and it goes through step 1 is called pre-cooling meaning removing the heat from the vegetables as fast as you can to maintain shelf-life and create quality of the product. Then it goes into a cold storage facility where it's handled until it's shipped out to different distribution center strategy on the State. Growers Ice company, we own 28 acres, just under 300,000 square feet of existing conditions. It's old. The average cold storage facility in the United States is 42 years old. There has been no major upgrades or innovation in the fresh produce, pre-cooling cold storage area. It's really important operate that asset class because a lot of people get confused about cold storage far as, bio-science, for frozen. That's an entirely different asset class. From the fresh produce side, there has been no major innovation. What we're doing, we started this initiative about five years ago, was to upgrade the campus as we refer to it. It's been a four-year planning process. It's been over 200 million dollar project. We went ahead with that. We're very excited about moving ahead with that development and what we want to do is to add technology as to which used a lot. But what's it mean, from energy, especially in California. Energy is a big issue in California. The energy costs continues to accelerate the local utility. There's no secret over the years that the challenges they have from the wildfires and all of these different things in California. The cost of energy is just skyrocketing. Last year we saw about a 22 percent increase kilowatt hour. Then it gets down to peak hours when you use that energy. We're all about energy. The pre-cooling and the cold storage is energy. We've been spending a lot of time, how do we develop a system with the macro grid system utilizing solar, utilizing the generation, utilizing batteries and being able to become as self sufficient as we possibly. That's a big part of the development that we have. Then the other part of that is the automation, what we referred to inside the warehouse because again, workers as you stated about [inaudible 00:14:08] workers that work in these cold storage facility. It's a tough job. We're always looking for ways to excite them and it becomes hard if you show up every day and working in eight, nine hours in the temperature controlled warehouse even though you have the outfits and the cold storage gears referred to work in it. It's still you're working inside, you're work in this case. What we wanted to do and we're looking at is to how we can automate a lot of this processes. When I use that word, a lot of our union friends which we have two or three on our campus, they get a little bit concerned, but so were you trying to displace workers?
We're trying to give workers a different skill so they can increase their hourly wage not to stay at this minimum wage, if you will. We're doing that on the campus and we are scheduled to come online or doors and right now, we're pushing March 2024 to have that in a whole new facility be 400,000 square feet. We're going to have over 750,000 square feet of solar panels. We're going to have a new office building, 32,000-square-foot office facility, which will accommodate the sales groups for these different campuses. It's the first and it's the largest facility of its nature that's been built 30 years more. Very excited about that project. It also has a lot of the infrastructure components as well. The roads obviously the traffic is being impacted bringing trucks in and trucks out. The wastewater, the environmental issues, especially on central coast in California. There's a lot of environmental challenges there that you've got to take and consider. New pumping stations, if you will, for industrial waste. Again, the cooling aspect for these cooler, we currently use ammonia. Ammonia is the most efficient, arguably, the refrigerants to be used. We're looking at how can we use another because ammonia, it could be dangerous if not used correctly. We're looking at different ways to improve that and to upgrade our technology equal and equivalent as well. That's another initiative we have. We also own a company that we engineer and manufacture our own pre-cooling equipment as well. We're doing a lot of upgrades in that area as well. We're very excited about that project and that's when do the next one and do the next one. That's what we want to do. We want to be known as the people that actually put money out and to do what we could to bring new facilities online for the next 50-60 years. That's our project in Salinas.
Deidre Woollard: That's really interesting, because I feel like with industrial, you're part of a larger trend, which is the difference between taking, industrial was traditionally just like a big warehouse. There's not that much in it. It's just a big building. Now we're seeing robotics, we're seeing machine-learning, food handling that's getting more delicate. All different types of ways of tracking food to know where it comes from that whole farm to table movement is working through produce as well. What other features are you looking at in terms of putting this building online? You mentioned the shift in freezing. What other technology are you looking at?
Jim White: You just hit on a big one, Deidre. Food-safety. Some of this technology now I think it's supplied as broadly as it should be applied. I think it's important that the growers, shippers, the farmers, and then from the post-harvest technology side such as the supply chain that we're in. That we do everything we possibly can to make sure every product that leaves is safe for the consumers and to make sure that we understand that, making sure that if something goes wrong, we can immediately say, this leaf came from this location at this time. Getting that level of technology to be able to isolate should there be an issue and to be able to isolate down to the row and the tree it came on. We're looking at that as well and make sure there's a lot of that currently today as you well know. But I think we can do a better job at that. Then the other aspect is what I call food security, which is a little different than food safety. Food security, how good of a job are we doing to make sure that our water sources are secure? At this day and age, we cannot take anything for granted. Unfortunately, we're living in a time that there's a lot of bad actors in some way. I can't think of another word. We got to take our security aspect more serious as well. We're looking at that. How do we make sure of when a product that come to our campus that it's secure once it's there? Not going to say that with scare. Nobody can get access to it, nobody can do anything, a malice intent to any of our food chain within our control, adding a lot of security, so much as well to the campus.
Deidre Woollard: Interesting. You mentioned water. I used to live in California, and so I've got this sense of water and water rights. Can you explain a little bit, just how important is securing water for the future to your business in Salinas and to other businesses in the area?
Jim White: I think water is the [inaudible 00:20:49] because [inaudible 00:20:51] California and Salinas area, the Monterey area. We do have saltwater intrusion coming into our [inaudible 00:20:59] and being able to control that. Without water, our community does not exist and Salinas Valley is often referred to as the Salad Bowl of the World. The nine-month period of time during the harvest, which starts around March and concludes around November, it's almost a five billion dollar market of produce that's flying through that market within 100-mile radius. Livelihood is that. We have no industry, so water is a big deal. Lot of initiatives have been involved from working together, a lot of colleges and non-profits and for-profits as to how we attach proper allocation of water. That's another thing and we talked earlier about what government can do. Part of that is making sure that there's an allocation process that the water rights are being allocated equally. Sometimes, you got small people that may not have the access to maybe the large. That's something you got to look at as well. But the simple answer is no water, no industry. That's it, it's just that serious.
Deidre Woollard: Yeah, I would agree with that. I noticed also that part of this is logistics. Certainly, the last year taught us about the supply chain and how very important that is. What factors are you looking at in terms of getting the produce out of your facility? Are you looking at autonomous trucks and things like that?
Jim White: We are looking at that autonomous trucks. I think we got some ways to go on that element. The other thing that we're looking at first and foremost is the EVs, electric vehicles. We're looking at that. Anything that we can do to reduce that per-mile charge, getting the produce to market. Then again, having that probably in the highway that are safe, getting vehicles that are not beating up the highways for infrastructure, being able to utilize rail more, which is a challenge within itself, especially coming out of our market, being able to use air transport more. All of those things in the logistics side are extremely important. I'm not suggesting that the industry is not taking it seriously, we are, but it's not moving fast enough in my opinion. Because one of the initiatives that we have in our U-Campus is actually just net carbon zero by 2050 and coming off there. That's one of our initiatives that we have built into this project and I know other firms are taking on the same thing. It excites me to see the firm looking at sustainability, impact investing, and those two words within themselves. That's very exciting, especially when you get private sector, this is important to our globe, it's important to our community, it's important to our state, our nation. We're pushing those initiatives on a daily basis. We're not looking at a [inaudible 00:24:54] without these components associated with, and specifically without the ability to measure these components as well. I think I've used that word measure two or three times since we've been chatting. It's really important to me. Measure of what you're doing and to be able to have a conversation with anybody who wants to have the conversation. Are you actually creating quality jobs? Answer should be, no, not maybe, here, we give a spin to it. It ought to be measured. If you're utilizing the government program, are you, in fact, using that the way it's intended to be used in the community? Again, accountability and transparency. I think across the nation we got a long way to that. But I'll never stop singing that song, if you will, that we got to get there. I think we got to do a better job in that transparency and accountability.
Deidre Woollard: Love it. That's a great place to take a quick break.
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Deidre Woollard: I am back with Dr. Jim White, and we're talking about all sorts of things. We're talking about agriculture, we're talking about industrial real estate, and now I want to talk about opportunity zones because you've written a book about them. One of the things I really liked in your book was you talked about developing playbooks for investing in certain areas. I like that idea of creating ways to streamline, build plans, and use that to revitalize communities. Can you explain a little bit more about what you were thinking about that?
Jim White: Yes. When I first started writing that particular sector, again, a lot of the conversation we're having are about regulation and streamlining and getting businesses in alignment with non-profits as well. Being able to go in these some of these are over 87 almost 88, 100 of these qualified opportunity zones in the United States. Currently, most of the investments are going in multi-family housing/ We can invest in parks, we can invest in boys and girls clubs. For example, just one non-profit, there's many of them, the wise and just go on and on and on. At the same time, have this conversation with your local officials. The mayors, the supervisors, if you will, I'm speaking California language and say this is what we're doing. How do we streamline to get from point A to point B? How can we make this process? Because I'd really like to see this part to be opened as soon as we can, I'd really like to see this program to be enacted as soon as we can. That was my thought process when I was talking about streamlining. But you've got to have the ability to communicate the message because these community leaders, they hear so much from so many. Who do you believe? Who do you not believe? How do you sort what's real, or what's not real, if you will? That's what I'll bet is streamlining and get our colleagues in business to be able to say, "Let's allocate from our own resources, let's put some money aside to actually go make something happen and show the community that we're serious about it." Because there's so many times when a developer will come into a community, and they will [inaudible 00:29:40] that for 15 years before it ever becomes to reality. That's the thing that I wanted to point out is, we had to streamline the process not only from a government regulation, but from the decision-making process and get your non-profits and your community involved in the process, that's going to upstream line.
Deidre Woollard: I also noticed in the book you mentioned historically black universities and colleges that are in opportunity zones and what that represents for people to create other projects around those important institutions. Why is that something that you wanted to highlight?
Jim White: I wanted to highlight and say it takes [inaudible 00:30:23] (laughs) and that's my belief. Sometimes I think the diversification is not what it should be. I think given resources around those communities within the QOZs. Particularly, I was advocating more incubators, if you will, is get people job creation. As I look around, there's not that many around those issues as compared to say, other universities are around. I just wanted to highlight, just call it out to say there's opportunity and especially when you have over 35 million Americans that reside in these 8,800 communities and the number of black, light, brown, Asian, it's all in there. We should not just be thinking that we're leaving those folks behind but again, you've got to help yourself as well. You've got to get involved in what to do more. I just wanted to highlight and say just don't overlook it. There's opportunity here. Keep putting some money in there and see what we can do to help jumpstart some excitement, and I'll have to say, hope it's not a strategy, but hope to get people encouragement that maybe they're in a situation that you can get out of it, you can do better.
Deidre Woollard: There is so much criticism about opportunity zones, though, because a lot of it has said that developers are coming in from outside. They're focusing more on the ones in the city as they're just trying to build developments and make money. Are you seeing that as the program matures, is there more opportunity that people are looking at rural opportunity zones? Are developers being more sensitive about that and not just coming in and trying to make money right off the bat.
Jim White: What a great question. I think we could do better. We are developer, we are one of them. I take the long view, it's creating value is long term. I think initially the [inaudible 00:32:53] has been misunderstood. Number 1, not having the accountability or being the numbers to really zero in, as I stated earlier, but are these dollars being used exactly where they should be? Best account I have has been $10 billion invested since the inception of the program and the majority of that's been in mostly urban communities. Well, what I said in my book. You've got the rural too. You've got to rule and that's what we're looking at the broadband and we're encouraging and that's what we're doing. Salinas is not urban, we're out. It's a city but what we're doing there, we're out in farm world. I encourage people to go look. Workforce, as we talked about earlier, is a challenge in the United States. We're finding some great attitudes of wanting to work in some of the most rural communities and that happens to be in opportunity zone. Are we doing as much as we need to? No, we're not, Deidre. I just think we can do better in the industry to be able to look at these rural opportunities.
Deidre Woollard: Well, let's talk a little bit about your project because it is in an opportunity zone. I know you've got several opportunity zone funds set up around different aspects of your business. Why did you decide to break it up in that way?
Jim White: I decided to break it up that way because the investors that would be interested in the opportunity zones look from a tax standpoint. This discussion, I could open up a can of worms, but I'll just go there. [inaudible 00:34:45] is, if I got capital gains, I believe that a few could reinvest those capital gains, and this is where the government comes in. If we could have that eco analysis, if I give a developer or someone who's got capital gains, a break on their taxes, provided that they are creating jobs, I'm all for that. I wanted to break it to these different components because different investors have different appetites for wanting to invest their money. We got the real estate side, we got the pre-cooling firm, we got the alternative energy firm, we got the automation firm, we got the logistic. Each one of those has an investor appetite versus just taking one and try to fit that. I wanted to get very specific. When I'm talking to an investor, your money is going to go here. This is what we're going to do with it, this is how we're going to measure it. We're not being your attorney, we're not being your tax adviser, we're not being your CPA, but our analysis suggests that the government would allow you to take this investment tax credit, take this depreciation, and get this benefit by making this investment. I just wanted to give also investors of all size an opportunity to invest versus just taking, your minimum investment's $500 million or $500,000. I wanted to have different funds that maybe it's just $1,000 or 2,000 or 5,000, we could set up different funds that would accommodate that to help other people get invested in some of these funds as well. It's an administrative challenge, I can tell you that for us, keep all those compliance issues because now I got five different funds that we're having to have all the compliance issues with. Just before I had a pleasure to start our talk today, I was talking to my controller, my CPA, and their word is always "Jeez, Jim, you've got another compliance issue for us, right?" I said, "Yes, we do. But it's another opportunity we have to put the money out where it should go."
Deidre Woollard: Interesting, I think one of the things that you talked earlier about, solar panels and things like that, I've noticed the rules require that you have to improve the property, but there aren't any greener sustainable rules around that. Do you think that that's something that should change?
Jim White: I do, I absolutely do. I absolutely do think it should change. Where I think it should change and the conversation I have with my colleagues in the industry is, don't require the government to give us a route to change it, it's the right thing to do, and it makes sense for us to do it so let's do it. I'll continue that dialogue as well, and I'm finding a lot of our colleagues believe the same way that I do. But I do think there need to be some additional rules for sustainability and energy associated with this. I absolutely do.
Deidre Woollard: Until you put it into the rules, people don't necessarily want to play along.
Jim White: Yeah, that's true. I like to pride myself on being the exception, and we try to be that exception. For example, during COVID, March before the first CARES Relief, in a little war room, I got my team together and I said, "What can we do if ours are afflicted by this thing?" We were the first ones to the nation that actually came out with this 80-week, we'll give you two weeks of pay, no questions asked. Then after the first CARES Act came out, that became part of the rules. I only bring that up to say this is what we tried to do. We try to be more proactive versus somebody saying, " [inaudible 00:38:59] , you got to do it." But you need both. I absolutely agree with a lot of people. I'm not going to do anything because my responsibility is to your shareholder, and that's right. My responsibility as the CEO and Chairman is to my stakeholders. My stakeholders is to communicate, my stakeholders is the state in which I operate, and my stakeholders is the nation, which I have the privilege to operate as well. So you're balancing all of those. It's not an easy task to do that by imagination, it's not. It puts challenges on staff to be able to do that, but that's the way I think and I think that if we can do more of that, we're going to make more progress.
Deidre Woollard: That's fantastic. During your lifetime, obviously, real estate development has changed in so many ways, but in some ways, even in my lifetime, it really hasn't changed. What do you think needs to be improved in the way that we develop properties?
Jim White: What a great question. First thing that comes to mind is making sure the developer has a clear of what I call project charter. It clears of what we want to do, and then forum to have better communication and go to the community straight out and tell them the story. Become a good storyteller, paint pictures to make sure that people really understand what we're trying to accomplish. Because you said it earlier about some of the negatives of the QOZ program, where a lot come into the urban and you take the money and you run it, and some people's done that. We got to be more a transparent that we're here for the long term, not just come in, strip all the money out of it, and move to the next place. We get calls all the time to look around the nation and around the world, and I'm very clear to style. Don't go outside of what we're good at. Don't get things that we don't know what we're doing, go to some place that we don't understand. We don't understand the rules and regulations. Stay in the wheelhouse, just do what we do extremely well. I think having a clear charter, making sure that you've got good relationships with your banking community, with your investment community, with your politicians, and with person sidewalk and every opportunity I get. Do you know what we're doing here at 1124 Abbott street? We're building this like that. Do you know anybody who's looking for a job or do you want to have another career. So it's those types of things that I think that needs to change, other than the fact that we're always in modeling touch id important. You got to be able to model your projects. There's no tax incentive in the world that has any value, in my opinion, unless the project stands on its own, to begin with as the first criteria. Don't bring me this incentive if this project is destined for failure, where it's just going to allow you to take off the top and go away. That, to me, it's not the way to do things. Again, transparency, making sure that we're doing the health and safety at the communities to streamline the process. One of our contractors earlier today, one of our extensions to the project we're working on in Salinas is on campus. He said, "How long is it going to take to get this thing permitted?" I looked and I said, "Probably 6-10 months." He said, "Oh, my goodness. That's going to miss the window of the time that we need to be open." I said, "That's right." So this is the type of thing you need to do early on is to make sure that you go in and that will put everybody in the chain to be executed at the top of their game all the time. That's a challenge.
Deidre Woollard: That is a challenge. One last question for you, what advice would you give to aspiring investors who want to make money but they also wanted to do good in the world? You're doing both right now, but is it possible for someone who's starting out to do both at the same time?
Jim White: It is, today. It's absolutely possible today. There are so many initiatives and ESDs, impact investment, different funds that are actually just focusing on that. So yes. On our website, we got different tools there for you. If you're interested in that, you can go look and search and try to make things available so you can find those resources and to be able to do that. Absolutely, you can, and it is more today than it was 18 months ago. Amazing. We've seen a lot of this develop even in 2020 during COVID, the emphasis on sustainability and impact investing and social issues. My investment team are talking to investors every day, and it's one of the first, what are you doing in impact investing? How do we know that if we invest in your fund, that it's going to be used the way you thought? What measures do you have? What transparent [inaudible 00:44:23] ? So a straight answer to your question. Certainly do it. Really important that you can, and there's lot of funds available to do that.
Deidre Woollard: That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time. Reminder to our listeners, you can always learn more at authorjimwhite.com. You can always email us at media@millionacres to share your thoughts or call our voice line at 844-615-2201 to be part of the show. Stay well and stay invested.
Thank you for tuning into the Millionacres podcast. I hope you liked today's show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing through your favorite podcasts provider. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop us a line at email@example.com. Stay well and stay invested. People on this program may have an interest in the deals, offerings, or services they discussed at Millionacres, or The Motley Fool may have a formal recommendation for or against. Always consultant a certified tax professional before acting on tax advice. Do not buy or sell assets based solely on what you hear. [MUSIC]